That's awesome๐ Exactly! Again, I was lucky because my public education was stellar. The vast majority of my teachers encouraged asking questions and we had class discussions about what we were learning. We didn't have the "teach to the test" issue when I went to school. Now it's all about memorization of facts and not the acquisition of knowledge. Two of the worst teachers I ever had had the memorize the facts attitude and it made learning duller than dirt.
I was lucky. My parents encouraged my curiosity. If I ever had a question, even if they knew the answer, they always told me to look it up. I was also within walking distance of the library. My parents' instilled in me a lifelong love of learning.
I am eternally greatful to my mom for encouraging curiosity and being open about her own level of knowledge. When we would ask questions she would often answer with "I dont know, lets go find out." And this adresses another key aspect of traditional schooling (and patriarchal society tbh) that I think undermines the supposed goals of education. I'm convinced personal epistemology- our implicit thoughts about knowledge and knowing (and I include learning in that)- is an essential belief system that is shaped (unintentionally) by schooling. Especially in the case of how knowledge is created, who is an authority and the roles of authority in knowledge, and the permanence of knowledge- which traditional school all suports a limited, authoritative, receptive vs generative, and mostly black and white perspective. The teacher has the answers, the answers are right or wrong, and your job as a student is to internalize the knowledge teachers give you rather than be an active participant that constructs meaning, and experieces that knowledge can change based on needs, situations, context...
I couldn't agree with this more! In todayโs world it seems like children get stickers for simply breathing! It seems the negative effects of the warm fuzzy self-esteem movement many years ago have confused parents and teachers so much they they believe kids won't participate or engage unless there is a reward. Missing the point that the reward is the participation, their learning, their joy, their journey! Children donโt need to be given a reward for sitting down to watch a much-anticipated movie or to eat ice cream or chocolate because these are activities come with a built-in reward, the immediate reward of positive emotions. I've always despised the use of stickers and you just reminded me how much. Almost as much as colouring in sheets!
I appreciate this coming up, as it's something my husband and I both felt unsure about. We have an amazing church community with loads of kids and we volunteered to teach kids work. But the way they did it was to hand out sweets/chocolate for answers. Now, we did feel we had the freedom to encourage real curiosity and thought provoking questions instead of just 'the right answers' but we still felt surely the sweets shouldn't be the reward but the learning itself. However, it's very difficult when they expect it and are used to receiving sweets for years in learning and lessons - by the time they're 9 or 10, they are openly disappointed and uninterested without the incentive.
I home educated and then my children went to sixth form. So I know this is true. At age about 9 my son was amazed that reading was considered work at school. He never took part in the library reading scheme as he liked reading long books and those who did well on the scheme only read short, easier books.
I did partake in the library summer reading scheme as a child but I also read constantly anyway. The scheme was always to read 6 books over 6/7 weeks and you got bits and bobs, such as the aforementioned stickers. I was first amused and later shocked that they thought this was a reading 'challenge' since I would read 6 books in a week, if not more. As for the scheme, I was happy to get free stuff for things I was going to do anyway!
I am of the opinion that formal schooling absolutely trains children to not be curious, inventive, persistent... Pretty much all of the things that school leaders claim to want out students to have. But Im convinced it isnt having consequences in and of itself that is the problem. Every action an individual takes is going to have a consequence by the nature of interactions. The problem with schooling specific consequences, in my opinion, is the abstraction from natural consequences. By that I mean multiple thing: the timing of school provided consequences is quite distant from the actual action- which means its less clear and competing with the instantaneous consequences that came naturally from the action. And this is the second challenge to schooling consequences - the consequences aren't directly related to the task. A grade or a sticker may be valuable to the learner, but the context doesnt match the action, its not directly useful or experiencial. There is so much ambiguity that it becomes less useful and thus the learner stops engaging with it all together.
When my daughter was in first grade last year,her math teacher used to give them candies for correct answers. I talked to the staff and tried to explain that kids are inherently motivated,there's no need to train them like horses. This sounded very weired to them. Luckily, I won't have to encounter that gaze again!
I think about this so much as a college professor. Can I re-ignite that spark? Is it too late? How do I bring the joy back, because I deeply believe that learning should be joyful. Thanks so much for this.
100% agree Dr. Fisher! I do not use behavior systems in my work, and while it's definitely much harder than relying on stickers and requires much better training for staff, it is ultimately so beneficial for the kids.
So interesting. Would love to see schools changing their policies on this. What year did the behavioural tactics become popular in schools Naomi? Iโm wondering which adult age groups were affected by this?
That's awesome๐ Exactly! Again, I was lucky because my public education was stellar. The vast majority of my teachers encouraged asking questions and we had class discussions about what we were learning. We didn't have the "teach to the test" issue when I went to school. Now it's all about memorization of facts and not the acquisition of knowledge. Two of the worst teachers I ever had had the memorize the facts attitude and it made learning duller than dirt.
I was lucky. My parents encouraged my curiosity. If I ever had a question, even if they knew the answer, they always told me to look it up. I was also within walking distance of the library. My parents' instilled in me a lifelong love of learning.
I am eternally greatful to my mom for encouraging curiosity and being open about her own level of knowledge. When we would ask questions she would often answer with "I dont know, lets go find out." And this adresses another key aspect of traditional schooling (and patriarchal society tbh) that I think undermines the supposed goals of education. I'm convinced personal epistemology- our implicit thoughts about knowledge and knowing (and I include learning in that)- is an essential belief system that is shaped (unintentionally) by schooling. Especially in the case of how knowledge is created, who is an authority and the roles of authority in knowledge, and the permanence of knowledge- which traditional school all suports a limited, authoritative, receptive vs generative, and mostly black and white perspective. The teacher has the answers, the answers are right or wrong, and your job as a student is to internalize the knowledge teachers give you rather than be an active participant that constructs meaning, and experieces that knowledge can change based on needs, situations, context...
I couldn't agree with this more! In todayโs world it seems like children get stickers for simply breathing! It seems the negative effects of the warm fuzzy self-esteem movement many years ago have confused parents and teachers so much they they believe kids won't participate or engage unless there is a reward. Missing the point that the reward is the participation, their learning, their joy, their journey! Children donโt need to be given a reward for sitting down to watch a much-anticipated movie or to eat ice cream or chocolate because these are activities come with a built-in reward, the immediate reward of positive emotions. I've always despised the use of stickers and you just reminded me how much. Almost as much as colouring in sheets!
I appreciate this coming up, as it's something my husband and I both felt unsure about. We have an amazing church community with loads of kids and we volunteered to teach kids work. But the way they did it was to hand out sweets/chocolate for answers. Now, we did feel we had the freedom to encourage real curiosity and thought provoking questions instead of just 'the right answers' but we still felt surely the sweets shouldn't be the reward but the learning itself. However, it's very difficult when they expect it and are used to receiving sweets for years in learning and lessons - by the time they're 9 or 10, they are openly disappointed and uninterested without the incentive.
I home educated and then my children went to sixth form. So I know this is true. At age about 9 my son was amazed that reading was considered work at school. He never took part in the library reading scheme as he liked reading long books and those who did well on the scheme only read short, easier books.
I did partake in the library summer reading scheme as a child but I also read constantly anyway. The scheme was always to read 6 books over 6/7 weeks and you got bits and bobs, such as the aforementioned stickers. I was first amused and later shocked that they thought this was a reading 'challenge' since I would read 6 books in a week, if not more. As for the scheme, I was happy to get free stuff for things I was going to do anyway!
I am of the opinion that formal schooling absolutely trains children to not be curious, inventive, persistent... Pretty much all of the things that school leaders claim to want out students to have. But Im convinced it isnt having consequences in and of itself that is the problem. Every action an individual takes is going to have a consequence by the nature of interactions. The problem with schooling specific consequences, in my opinion, is the abstraction from natural consequences. By that I mean multiple thing: the timing of school provided consequences is quite distant from the actual action- which means its less clear and competing with the instantaneous consequences that came naturally from the action. And this is the second challenge to schooling consequences - the consequences aren't directly related to the task. A grade or a sticker may be valuable to the learner, but the context doesnt match the action, its not directly useful or experiencial. There is so much ambiguity that it becomes less useful and thus the learner stops engaging with it all together.
When my daughter was in first grade last year,her math teacher used to give them candies for correct answers. I talked to the staff and tried to explain that kids are inherently motivated,there's no need to train them like horses. This sounded very weired to them. Luckily, I won't have to encounter that gaze again!
ugh, candies for answers! seriously. Reminds me of when the dentist gave the kids a sweet each for having their teeth checked- what the actual!??!
I think about this so much as a college professor. Can I re-ignite that spark? Is it too late? How do I bring the joy back, because I deeply believe that learning should be joyful. Thanks so much for this.
100% agree Dr. Fisher! I do not use behavior systems in my work, and while it's definitely much harder than relying on stickers and requires much better training for staff, it is ultimately so beneficial for the kids.
So interesting. Would love to see schools changing their policies on this. What year did the behavioural tactics become popular in schools Naomi? Iโm wondering which adult age groups were affected by this?