As another aside, if you follow the education debate at all there's a *lot* of emphasis on 'evidence based education'. I've got a lot of criticisms of this, a lot of which are to do with the flawed concept of the 'evidence' itself. However, another big clue that it's proponents may not actually be as motivated by evidence as they think they are is their lack of criticism of homework and uniform. As far as I'm aware the evidence supporting the former is flimsy at best while the evidence supporting the latter is non-existent. Whatever the reasons are for homework and uniforms, they are not to do with helping kids to learn.
I completely support your criticism of the 'evidence' in 'evidence-based' decisions. We see a lot of flawed assumptions in mental health, when it comes to what works - it seems the drive towards 'evidence-based' practice is problematic in a broader sense, then. I wonder what other fields that would apply to!
It's difficult to get into the full scope of it in a comments section but one very basic point in terms of schools is that the 'evidence' is all based on *existing school contexts*. There's no way to take a group of kids out of school to make a meaningful control group, and alternative education styles also aren't widespread enough to make a fair distribution of, eg, incomes. The results are also generally based on exam results or exam tyoe tests. So basically what the evidence tells you is that X type of instruction helps children in a classroom context retain information under exam conditions. I'm not saying that's completely without value but it's a very, very far cry from "this is the best thing for young children to be doing/the best way for them to learn for 8 hours a day 5 days a week 39 weeks a year", which is what it's advocates essentially claim. It's very difficult to get exponents to engage in even seeing it as an institutional system, let alone to question its biased and assumptions.
Also I'd be really interested to hear a critique of evidence in mental health. I've got a number of thoutghts about it as a manic-depressive who went through the system but I'd love to hear more from the perspective of mental health professionals.
At least in the UK, homework hasn't always been the expectation at primary school. Nor uniforms, for that matter. Neither were universal, by any means, when I was a kid in the 80s. What likely changed it was the 2011 white paper on education which defined the purpose of primary education as making children 'secondary ready'. Under this framework a lot of things that happen in primaries are justified by the idea that they are done in secondary. Homework? Well, they'll have to do it in secondary. Missing break times as punishment? Well, they'll have to do it in secondary. Never mind if it's useful or appropriate.
All this kind of stuff made me the basket case I am today. Most of my fellow adults do better at living it down, but mostly because they dull the pain with a kind of Stockholm syndrome. Otherwise, the experience would surely have turned them into radical “child libbers” like me.
More and more in the adult world, I am seeing discussion about, support for and even formal training on putting healthy boundaries between personal and professional life in place and not taking work home with you. Surely we should be teaching our children to do the same?
I could never understand why we want to show our children that it's perfectly okay to be sent home with more work to do, because they haven't finished it during the day. My teen came out of the school system two years ago but still has online lessons - and the only 'homework' they do for those lessons is the work they choose to do because they're so passionate about the subject. They're happier, and our relationship is a thousand times better because I'm not nagging about homework all the time. Thanks so much for sharing.
There is no possibility of attainment at school. School is for stripping you of agency and humanity. And what if someone doesn't attain anything? Life is life. Is a bee on a flower attaining anything?
I reluctantly set homework in my last mainstream primary post as it was what the academy expected.
Which brings another layer into this! CEO's of academies dictating what the 'right' amount of homework is for all of their schools... disregarding the unique setting of each school.
I love this idea of asking the school to make time for "bouncing"! And am grateful to notice in the thought exercise that I believe the adults in my son's school (a public school) would be 100% responsive if I asked in the right way.
Something else I notice: A lot of the "homework" at his 1st grade age are things we have always done together "just for fun", like reading and math games. What is annoying is to layer on the need to time the activity, or record it, turning it into an obligation rather than an enjoyment. I work hard to refrain from saying things like "time to do your reading!" and instead notice together at home that, yes, your teacher assigned 20 minutes but it's kind of silly since .. wouldn't we do this anyways? We joke, what if your coach assigned soccer playtime? Or, what if they assigned tickles?
The truth is, this is an unfortunate reality of our society.. Perhaps it's a learning opportunity to teach (model?) that there are various ways of approaching it and help us all become more aware of the friction it creates.
I refuse to make my 10 year old do homework.
I salute you 🫡
As another aside, if you follow the education debate at all there's a *lot* of emphasis on 'evidence based education'. I've got a lot of criticisms of this, a lot of which are to do with the flawed concept of the 'evidence' itself. However, another big clue that it's proponents may not actually be as motivated by evidence as they think they are is their lack of criticism of homework and uniform. As far as I'm aware the evidence supporting the former is flimsy at best while the evidence supporting the latter is non-existent. Whatever the reasons are for homework and uniforms, they are not to do with helping kids to learn.
I completely support your criticism of the 'evidence' in 'evidence-based' decisions. We see a lot of flawed assumptions in mental health, when it comes to what works - it seems the drive towards 'evidence-based' practice is problematic in a broader sense, then. I wonder what other fields that would apply to!
Great to see other people talking about this.
It's difficult to get into the full scope of it in a comments section but one very basic point in terms of schools is that the 'evidence' is all based on *existing school contexts*. There's no way to take a group of kids out of school to make a meaningful control group, and alternative education styles also aren't widespread enough to make a fair distribution of, eg, incomes. The results are also generally based on exam results or exam tyoe tests. So basically what the evidence tells you is that X type of instruction helps children in a classroom context retain information under exam conditions. I'm not saying that's completely without value but it's a very, very far cry from "this is the best thing for young children to be doing/the best way for them to learn for 8 hours a day 5 days a week 39 weeks a year", which is what it's advocates essentially claim. It's very difficult to get exponents to engage in even seeing it as an institutional system, let alone to question its biased and assumptions.
Also I'd be really interested to hear a critique of evidence in mental health. I've got a number of thoutghts about it as a manic-depressive who went through the system but I'd love to hear more from the perspective of mental health professionals.
At least in the UK, homework hasn't always been the expectation at primary school. Nor uniforms, for that matter. Neither were universal, by any means, when I was a kid in the 80s. What likely changed it was the 2011 white paper on education which defined the purpose of primary education as making children 'secondary ready'. Under this framework a lot of things that happen in primaries are justified by the idea that they are done in secondary. Homework? Well, they'll have to do it in secondary. Missing break times as punishment? Well, they'll have to do it in secondary. Never mind if it's useful or appropriate.
All this kind of stuff made me the basket case I am today. Most of my fellow adults do better at living it down, but mostly because they dull the pain with a kind of Stockholm syndrome. Otherwise, the experience would surely have turned them into radical “child libbers” like me.
More and more in the adult world, I am seeing discussion about, support for and even formal training on putting healthy boundaries between personal and professional life in place and not taking work home with you. Surely we should be teaching our children to do the same?
I could never understand why we want to show our children that it's perfectly okay to be sent home with more work to do, because they haven't finished it during the day. My teen came out of the school system two years ago but still has online lessons - and the only 'homework' they do for those lessons is the work they choose to do because they're so passionate about the subject. They're happier, and our relationship is a thousand times better because I'm not nagging about homework all the time. Thanks so much for sharing.
There is no possibility of attainment at school. School is for stripping you of agency and humanity. And what if someone doesn't attain anything? Life is life. Is a bee on a flower attaining anything?
I have to agree!
I reluctantly set homework in my last mainstream primary post as it was what the academy expected.
Which brings another layer into this! CEO's of academies dictating what the 'right' amount of homework is for all of their schools... disregarding the unique setting of each school.
Onslaught - that word describes it perfectly
I love this idea of asking the school to make time for "bouncing"! And am grateful to notice in the thought exercise that I believe the adults in my son's school (a public school) would be 100% responsive if I asked in the right way.
Something else I notice: A lot of the "homework" at his 1st grade age are things we have always done together "just for fun", like reading and math games. What is annoying is to layer on the need to time the activity, or record it, turning it into an obligation rather than an enjoyment. I work hard to refrain from saying things like "time to do your reading!" and instead notice together at home that, yes, your teacher assigned 20 minutes but it's kind of silly since .. wouldn't we do this anyways? We joke, what if your coach assigned soccer playtime? Or, what if they assigned tickles?
The truth is, this is an unfortunate reality of our society.. Perhaps it's a learning opportunity to teach (model?) that there are various ways of approaching it and help us all become more aware of the friction it creates.